Inworld 3DX meeting - 16 March 2011

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[22:01]  Sakai Openlife: I brought along a couple pics

[22:01]  Sakai Openlife: to give a longer explanation

[22:01]  Sakai Openlife: of some changes

[22:01]  Shai Khalifa: I've been working on CI all this week and it's been fine other than having lag issues with rezzing objects

[22:01]  Scarletti Gregan: hello

[22:01]  Surreal Numbers: back

[22:01]  Shai Khalifa: they take up to 30 seconds to rez after dragging from inventory

[22:02]  Surreal Numbers: hi to everyone i missed. :)

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: that effect everyone

[22:02]  Shai Khalifa: hey Scarletta, and Jardel, lovely to see you

[22:02]  Scarletti Gregan: shay

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: so I have here

[22:02]  Grimley Graves: well HI jardel and Scarletti

[22:02]  Scarletti Gregan: grim

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: the 2 'slides'

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: the current system on the left

 

[22:02]  Grimley Graves: long time no see

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: and the new system on the right

 

[22:02]  Scarletti Gregan: sakai

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: a little background on it

[22:02]  Scarletti Gregan: surreal

[22:02]  Jardel Greggan: oi Shai , tambem estamos contentes em ve-los

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: as is quite obvious

[22:02]  Sakai Openlife: we have a lot of changes going on

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: March for us has been mostly about user epxerience

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: experience

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: and improving it

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: from getting started

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: to managing social and etc

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: a long time ago

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: (3 yrs ago)

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: Quickly we cobbled together a working registration

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: and avatar

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: time has definitely come to replace it

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: hehe

[22:03]  Sakai Openlife: registration is often confusing

[22:04]  Shai Khalifa: oh yeah.....

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: web account

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: avatar

[22:04]  Scarletti Gregan: excited about our new slot

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: what to use

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: how to ogin

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: login

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: tc

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: etc

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: so we have a new page going up today

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: to replace the existing stuff

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: atm you register

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: then you make an avatar

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: in the new system

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: (and I should explain)

[22:04]  Sakai Openlife: I'm explaining so that you know what happens

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: as you have already registered

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: it will be different to new users

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: new system the user makes the avatar

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: on the first page

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: not really much to fill out

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: just

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: an avatar

[22:05]  Shai Khalifa: it's important for VLE though as we guide people through it so often to bring them across worlds

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: and password

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: email

[22:05]  Sakai Openlife: and country/language

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: once that is ok (ie unique)

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: the user can customize

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: the avatar

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: (on the site)

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: choose sex

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: and a bunch of premade av's

[22:06]  Sakai Openlife: which we might change even further to be custom av's

[22:06]  Scarletti Gregan: april hi

[22:07]  April Springs: hi

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: it will also guide the user to getting into world

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: from downloading the client

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: filing it out etc

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: (like a small follow up tutorial)

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: to help make the first 'experience' better

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: for existing users

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: there are also changs

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: hence the 2 boards

[22:07]  Sakai Openlife: your current 'account'

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: with Openlife is the one on the left

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: sorry th resolution is a little lo

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: low in the pics

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: I didn't realise they were so small

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: hehe

[22:08]  Shai Khalifa: is ok - still readable

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: but you have your web

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: and avatar very seperate

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: we need to make all existing avatars like

[22:08]  Sakai Openlife: the ones on the right

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: (2nd slide)

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: so we will put up a special page soon

[22:09]  Scarletti Gregan: good to see everyone

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: to let you designate

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: your 'Primary' Avatar

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: and choose

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: if you would like to update your web login name

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: too

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: to make it the same as new users have

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: as an example

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: Say my avatar

[22:09]  Sakai Openlife: Sakai Openlife

[22:09]  Shai Khalifa: so we can retain current web login if we want?

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: i might have 3 avatars

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: I would choose

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: the one to be my primary avatar

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: (in my case I would pick Sakai Openlife)

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: as it's the one i want everyone to see

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: My web ogin

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: login

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: would update

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: to be SakaiOpenlife

[22:10]  Sakai Openlife: (no spaces ' ')

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: i can still keep different password

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: for web

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: and avatar

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: (which i like for security)

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: then when i post in the forums

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: ppl will see

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: 'Sakai Openlife';

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: rather than whatever 'display name' i chose before

[22:11]  Sakai Openlife: and if they clicked on my forum name

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: it would go to My Avatar details page

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: where they could friend me

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: or IM me etc

[22:12]  Shai Khalifa: that's excellent

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: so it seems like a small change

[22:12]  Shai Khalifa: to be able to do that via the web will make life so much easier all round

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: but it's pretty big in that

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: if you miss it

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: you can't login!

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: (to the website)

[22:12]  Sakai Openlife: your existing login will still work

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: until the change is made

[22:13]  Grimley Graves: will we all have to update things?

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: you will have to login to the website

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: and choose your primary avatar

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: there is no smal window for this

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: for a few months

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: and we will email 'everyone'

[22:13]  Sakai Openlife: that has ever registered

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: so lots of time to do it

[22:14]  Shai Khalifa: that email will result in a fair few returnees

[22:14]  Scarletti Gregan: I gotta change something from u?

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: basically if you see a new website

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: altogether

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: with ecommerce

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: for virtual business etc

[22:14]  Sakai Openlife: (a few months away)

[22:15]  Sakai Openlife: *Sorry brb 1min office interruption

[22:15]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[22:15]  Sakai Openlife: it will be available to do

[22:15]  Jardel Greggan: hi

[22:15]  Sakai Openlife: then are too late

[22:18]  Sakai Openlife: back

[22:18]  Sakai Openlife: (sorry electrician arrive to fix some things in the office)

[22:18]  Cheops Forlife: wb

[22:19]  Sakai Openlife: So, this change doesn't break you

[22:19]  Sakai Openlife: unless you ignored it for 3 months or so

[22:19]  Sakai Openlife: we'll also start removing inactive accounts from the system and general clean up

[22:20]  Shai Khalifa: so Sakai, does that mean we have to field complaints from returnees who don't bother to read their emails or the forum?

[22:20]  Sakai Openlife: so that we can implement a new global inventory and asset system later

[22:20]  Shai Khalifa: ok, who's inventory was that?

[22:20]  Sakai Openlife: which is also important

[22:21]  Sakai Openlife: leading up to the VB stuff

[22:21]  Sakai Openlife: in short what we're trying to acheive

[22:21]  Sakai Openlife: is a solid social and biz framework

[22:21]  Sakai Openlife: and allow you to do most of what you do here in out of world too

[22:22]  Sakai Openlife: (like chatting, buying items etc etc)

[22:22]  Sakai Openlife: it's also worth noting

[22:22]  Sakai Openlife: that it won't simply be game over

[22:22]  Sakai Openlife: to tie your avatar with the web

[22:22]  Sakai Openlife: if someone missed it for 6 months

[22:23]  Sakai Openlife: (we'll automatically pick a primary avatar for users that missed it)

[22:23]  Sakai Openlife: and allow them to retrieve the details via email 'lost password' function

[22:23]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[22:23]  Sakai Openlife: so it's not doom and gloom

[22:23]  Sakai Openlife: just an IMPORTANT change

[22:23]  Shai Khalifa: so long as there's a way they can get back in, cos we do have returnees who just pop back a year later

[22:24]  Surreal Numbers: (shai, for vle we should probably contact the performers individually and guide them through since they are infrequent logins)

[22:24]  Sakai Openlife: however if someones account is say as an example

[22:24]  Shai Khalifa: I agree Surreal

[22:24]  Sakai Openlife: inactive for the last 2yrs

[22:24]  Sakai Openlife: it will likely be cleaned out

[22:24]  Shai Khalifa: maybe you can add that info to the global email Sakai

[22:24]  Sakai Openlife: (we will)

[22:24]  Sakai Openlife: (like i justy mentioned) ;)

[22:24]  Shai Khalifa: might prompt a few people to sort their crap out

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: these are major changes and also new changes to the terms of use

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: are coming

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: so we will email everyone of all the changes

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: we're looking at the best way to implement the new terms of use

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: but likely

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: we'll put a prompter on the website

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: and in the viewer mainscreen

[22:25]  Sakai Openlife: prior to login

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: the changes in a nutshell

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: are to do with social interaction

[22:26]  Shai Khalifa: yes, the pre-login screen can be a great place for those really important messages that effect fundamentals

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: (acceptable behaviour) with better definition

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: and virtual business

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: becaus we will implement credits reverse

[22:26]  Sakai Openlife: (credits > $)

[22:27]  Sakai Openlife: we must implement some new legal in the terms of use

[22:27]  Shai Khalifa: that's very very good news

[22:27]  Notecard saved

[22:27]  Sakai Openlife: so that was that in a slightly lonh 25min presentatino

[22:27]  Sakai Openlife: lol

[22:27]  Sakai Openlife: any Q's about this change?

[22:28]  Shai Khalifa: what happens to avatars we already have if more than 2?

[22:28]  Shai Khalifa: you said the first 2 are free, rest cost

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: I will need to find the

[22:28]  Language Translator configurado: Eu preciso encontrar a

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: timeframe' that we are using for 'active'

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: but as an example

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: 'alts'

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: in your account

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: that haven't logged in for a long time

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: would be removed

[22:28]  Sakai Openlife: if you use them they will still be there

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: so no change

[22:29]  Shai Khalifa: so it's in our own interests to delete unwanted ones ahead of time

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: not really

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: there won't be a delete button shortly anyway

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: (in a few hours)

[22:29]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: the system can clean them up

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: on it's own

[22:29]  Sakai Openlife: After the change

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: you can still make an alt

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: (at no cost)

[22:30]  Shai Khalifa: so we do however need to make sure any unwanted alts have been stripped of things we stil may want

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: for your first

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: then 100cr

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: for each ALT after that

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: not really shai

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: if you log in

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: with the alt

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: then you are using it

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: so it's active

[22:30]  Sakai Openlife: and won't be cleaned

[22:30]  Scarletti Gregan: sorry need to go, I do not think well

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: np scarletti

[22:31]  Scarletti Gregan: glad to see them

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: nie seeing you!

[22:31]  Surreal Numbers: bye scarletti!

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: it's quite simple really

[22:31]  Scarletti Gregan: bye

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: if you use it

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: it's fine

[22:31]  Scarletti Gregan: happy friends

[22:31]  Shai Khalifa: buy Scarletti

[22:31]  April Springs: bye scarletti

[22:31]  Cheops Forlife: bye Scarletti

[22:31]  Sakai Openlife: even if it's only occaisionally

[22:31]  Surreal Numbers: bye jardel

[22:31]  Shai Khalifa: cya Jardel

[22:32]  April Springs: bye jardel

[22:32]  Cheops Forlife: bye Jardel

[22:32]  Scarletti Gregan: grim ,,cheops

[22:32]  Shai Khalifa: sleep well you two

[22:32]  Sakai Openlife: the system is really looking for 'abandoned' avatars

[22:32]  Scarletti Gregan: sakay

[22:32]  Language Translator configurado: Sakay

[22:32]  Sakai Openlife: ie an av with no login at all

[22:32]  Scarletti Gregan: hugs

[22:32]  Jardel Greggan: ate mais a todos os amigos

[22:32]  Jardel Greggan: even more to all friends

[22:32]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[22:32]  Sakai Openlife: or no login in a reasonably long period of time

[22:32]  Grimley Graves: good to see you guys, come back soon

[22:32]  Scarletti Gregan: yes

[22:32]  Grimley Graves: huggs to you both

[22:32]  Shai Khalifa: and you'll put the definition of a "reasonably long period" in the email also?

[22:32]  Sakai Openlife: yes

[22:33]  Sakai Openlife: it will end up in the Terms of Use

[22:33]  Sakai Openlife: for the site

[22:33]  Shai Khalifa: cool

[22:33]  Sakai Openlife: we don't want to clean anyone out obviously that uses it

[22:33]  Shai Khalifa: what about any Credits they may have in those alts?

[22:33]  Shai Khalifa: will they be transferred to the main avatar?

[22:34]  Sakai Openlife: it depends on the circumstance

[22:34]  Sakai Openlife: if 1 alt no activity for say 2yrs

[22:34]  Sakai Openlife: the whole account will clean up

[22:34]  Sakai Openlife: and any alts

[22:34]  Shai Khalifa: fair enough

[22:34]  Sakai Openlife: for us to maintain the systenm

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: for an av that is effectively null

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: is a waste

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: of resources for everyone that does use it

[22:35]  Shai Khalifa: I'm just thinking that as you say, to access an alt in order to clean it out for deletion, would then make it active - so if the system does it, we need to be assured the credits are transferred really

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: (including the AV)

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: if you have cr in it

[22:35]  Sakai Openlife: you can see from the site

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: if you'r using it or ppl are paying it

[22:36]  Surreal Numbers: given the sensitivity to the credits reval, it might be worthwhile to send reminders 2 months before, 1 month before, two weeks before, one week before, and then one day before. no one can claim they weren't informed then

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: this is months and months before hand

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: the email will go out

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: early april

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: with reminders

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: if you haven't updated

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: both in world

[22:36]  Sakai Openlife: and on the site

[22:37]  Sakai Openlife: you cannot even log in

[22:37]  Sakai Openlife: until you accept them

[22:37]  Sakai Openlife: so if you use Openlife

[22:37]  Sakai Openlife: it's impossible to miss these changes

[22:37]  Sakai Openlife: for someone that doesn't use Openlife

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: the changes are irrelevant anyways

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: until you make the change

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: in the case of Terms of Use

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: and if they came back in a year then they are welcome to start again anyways ㋡

[22:38]  Surreal Numbers: we do see and have been seeing lately avs from 2 or more years ago popping in for a look

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: yep we're still here ㋡

[22:38]  Sakai Openlife: hehe

[22:38]  Surreal Numbers: wb shai

[22:38]  Grimley Graves: wb Shai

[22:38]  Cheops Forlife: wb shai

[22:38]  Shai Khalifa: damned viewer quit on me

[22:39]  April Springs: wb shai

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: so all in all the changes are positive

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: it will simplify things

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: for new users

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: and for existing clean things up ㋡

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: probably the biggest issue

[22:39]  Sakai Openlife: we know of

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: actually

[22:40]  Grimley Graves: i can

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: is returning users

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: forgetting login details

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: this will really help

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: (particularly for the website)

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: everyday we see some 20-30 ppl

[22:40]  Sakai Openlife: fail to get in

[22:41]  Sakai Openlife: so the new process going up in a few hours will hopefully save the day, in this scenario

[22:41]  Sakai Openlife: ㋡

[22:41]  Shai Khalifa: :)

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: that aside we still have more deliverables to the website

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: and in world

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: this month

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: we've been coding like crack monkeys

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: this month so far

[22:42]  Shai Khalifa: you told me recently that the rest of groups will be in the April work

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: and we'll have a few more in world updates

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: and core updates

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: no

[22:42]  Sakai Openlife: before april

[22:42]  Shai Khalifa: hehe you cracking that whip

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: remaining group items will arrive at different times between now and the end of the month

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: usually at the same time as their web counterparts

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: (which is why we have held them back()

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: so that if we made a change to what we have already done for world

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: in web

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: we can change it further

[22:43]  Sakai Openlife: without breaking anything

[22:44]  Shai Khalifa: ah - good to hear

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: this is why the function in world is currently limited

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: despite the 'ability' existing to do more

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: there are little switches all over the groups functions disabling

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: (no action

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: example

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: you can send an invite

[22:44]  Sakai Openlife: but it won't arrive

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: etc

[22:45]  Shai Khalifa: you can put up a pic, but it doesn't stick

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: yep

[22:45]  Shai Khalifa: suppose that's another switch

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: so these bits will go on

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: as you see us put their counterparts

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: into the website

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: just like the htp://openlifegrid.com/avatar.aspx?Sakai Openlife

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: there will be the same for groups

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: so a group owner can put a bunch of bits and pieces up

[22:45]  Sakai Openlife: for others to see

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: (registered openlife users)

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: as an example

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: if you had a group

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: for your store

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: you could post new things up there etc

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: we will try to tie this further (webside)

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: to allow users to 'follow' your group

[22:46]  Sakai Openlife: ㋡

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: *it all sounds very web 2.0 ish yes>/

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: for twitter users

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: we're also making it possible

[22:47]  Shai Khalifa: it actually sounds very 'modern' to use a bad term

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: to link your live twitter feed

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: into your avatar page

[22:47]  Sakai Openlife: *we have no such plans for the same as fb atm

[22:48]  Sakai Openlife: there's an awful lot of spam in fb feeds

[22:48]  Grimley Graves: and twit feeds

[22:48]  Sakai Openlife: it seems to hurt the platforms yes?

[22:48]  Grimley Graves: twit is turning into a spam channel

[22:48]  Sakai Openlife: I know they want you to follow everything

[22:48]  Shai Khalifa: apt description Grims - feeds by right twits

[22:49]  Sakai Openlife: but i find it hard to read someonesa twitter

[22:49]  Sakai Openlife: if they have 10,0000 retweets

[22:49]  Grimley Graves: yep

[22:49]  Surreal Numbers: yes. there are several i eventually had to stop following becuase they diluted the timeline. :(

[22:50]  Sakai Openlife: I don't think I'm that old

[22:50]  Sakai Openlife: but i'm finding it harder and harder to understand twitter

[22:51]  Shai Khalifa: likewise - it's way too disjointed for me

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: a while ago

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: it was sort of usefu

[22:51]  Grimley Graves: it's "short attention span" e-mail

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: ie if a website didn't work

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: i coul search twitter

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: to see if it didn't work for others too

[22:51]  Cheops Forlife: lolll

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: but now it seems impossible to get useful results

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: in the search

[22:51]  Sakai Openlife: or i just see 10,000,000 retweets

[22:52]  Sakai Openlife: but some bits of twitter are useful

[22:52]  Sakai Openlife: (although i don't use it too much)

[22:52]  Cheops Forlife: twitter is good if you choose who to follow from other blogs or socail networks,

[22:52]  Grimley Graves: it's usefull for overthrowing corrupt dictators :D

[22:52]  Cheops Forlife: on a matter you want to know

[22:52]  Shai Khalifa: hehe

[22:53]  Sakai Openlife: heheh perhaps

[22:53]  Sakai Openlife: although sms liekly work well when the internet is blocked

[22:53]  Surreal Numbers: if the corrupt dictator doesnt turn off internet access

[22:53]  Grimley Graves: and letting folks know you're ok after a disaster

[22:53]  Shai Khalifa: on another note, Sakai, the last few days on Community Island, I've had long delays in rezzing items once dragged from inventory

[22:53]  Cheops Forlife: or not ok...

[22:53]  Sakai Openlife: it can happen if it's busy

[22:54]  Shai Khalifa: but there's only been me there

[22:54]  Grimley Graves: are you dragging after searching Shai?

[22:54]  Shai Khalifa: no

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: remember the region goes and asks elsewhere

[22:54]  Shai Khalifa: though sometimes yes

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: so there can be delay

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: we won't have a new inventory system

[22:54]  Cheops Forlife: yeah same bug as when opening or because opening inventory, it is part of the freeze

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: for a month or 2

[22:54]  Surreal Numbers: not just CI. but the delays i experience are after searching inventory for an item i then try to rezz

[22:54]  Shai Khalifa: but up to 45 seconds?

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: sure

[22:54]  Grimley Graves: I find lag after I do a word search for something, then try to rez it

[22:54]  Sakai Openlife: sometimes theres a few ppl spamming up the inventory

[22:55]  Sakai Openlife: with large deletes

[22:55]  Sakai Openlife: or other things

[22:55]  Sakai Openlife: say i delete 10,000 prims

[22:55]  Sakai Openlife: that's 10,000 individual inventory calls

[22:55]  Shai Khalifa: I've been working in the time of day when there are the least number of people on the grid, and still get these delays

[22:55]  Sakai Openlife: there can be lots of reasons for it really

[22:56]  Shai Khalifa: just letting you know - it's a pain in the bum when you're building

[22:56]  Sakai Openlife: but the system is still for the most part the same old system we had a long time ago

[22:56]  Sakai Openlife: it will be changed

[22:56]  Grimley Graves: ulp

[22:56]  Sakai Openlife: *?and sometimes we're donig things too

[22:56]  Sakai Openlife: maintenance or clean up

[22:56]  Shai Khalifa: cos there are also delays in such things as delinking from a linkset - even not a big one?

[22:57]  Sakai Openlife: I'll have a look at the region perhaps you guys have busied it up a lot

[22:57]  Grimley Graves: have you been to CI lately Sakai? we would love your feedback

[22:57]  Sakai Openlife: it is important that CI is clan

[22:57]  Sakai Openlife: clean

[22:57]  Grimley Graves: it's pretty bare still

[22:57]  Cheops Forlife: when I have that Shai, I restart the region and the dealy for unlink or link dispaears...

[22:57]  Shai Khalifa: and as much as possible is phantom

[22:57]  Cheops Forlife: delay*

[22:58]  Grimley Graves: we can move the meeting there now if you want

[22:58]  Shai Khalifa: is there any way you can allow for the managers (or at least one individual) to do web restarts if necessary

[22:59]  Surreal Numbers: (when i am building/editing a lot, i'll restart every 1-2 hours since the region gets "tired")

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: (nope)

[22:59]  Grimley Graves: no reason not to

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: nto for lack of wanting

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: it's just not possible in the current system

[22:59]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: but if u can log in

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: u can do it

[22:59]  Sakai Openlife: in the estate panel

[23:00]  Shai Khalifa: ok

[23:00]  Cheops Forlife: a word about DART?

[23:00]  Grimley Graves: yes

[23:00]  Grimley Graves: and the stuck region problems

[23:00]  Surreal Numbers: yes, is the region health system in place yet?

[23:00]  Sakai Openlife: some of it

[23:01]  Cheops Forlife: the ones that are not, can they have DART again?

[23:01]  Grimley Graves: massive chat lag :(

[23:01]  Shai Khalifa: Stuck regions didn't remedy via inworld restart. Is that still the case?

[23:01]  Sakai Openlife: dart is still here

[23:01]  Grimley Graves: yep, requires web restart

[23:01]  Sakai Openlife: the regions are doing daily restarts still

[23:01]  Cheops Forlife: not at Digi's regions

[23:01]  Sakai Openlife: *yes

[23:01]  Sakai Openlife: they are

[23:01]  Sakai Openlife: dart is a system outside of regions

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: completely independent

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: when dart fires a restart

[23:02]  Shai Khalifa: so it's a global thing?

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: the cloud will close the region

[23:02]  Grimley Graves: is there a set schedule for regions?

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: regardless of if the region wants to respond or not

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: the same method is used

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: for web restarts

[23:02]  Sakai Openlife: it talks to the dart system

[23:02]  Shai Khalifa: ah yes, I remember you saying this - that's why we can't delay it in Estate panel

[23:03]  Sakai Openlife: which will override whatever the region wants to do

[23:03]  Cheops Forlife: I never saw one of the 4 regions restarting alone as I did at Place, everyy day same hour or before as it was at Digi's

[23:04]  Shai Khalifa: I guess it depends on which part of the cloud the region is in at a time

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: as an example

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: everyday

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: for gaia

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: is restarting via dart

[23:04]  Grimley Graves: any way to find out what time those regions restart? so they can watch for it?

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: at 8:26am UTC

[23:04]  Surreal Numbers: (the daily restart time used to be visible in My Toolbox. but i dont see it any longer in The Hub)

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: yeah dart isn't visisble

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: anymore

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: because any day it will be removed

[23:04]  Sakai Openlife: when it is removed

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: we still have an external dart like system

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: but without the daily times

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: instead it monitors from outside

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: and will forcibly restart the region

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: when no one is in it

[23:05]  Shai Khalifa: makes sense

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: the region will still restart everyday

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: but at times when you won't see it

[23:05]  Sakai Openlife: or be effected by it

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: it might even restart more often

[23:06]  Cheops Forlife: and what then when it is only ground ?

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: it's up to the criteria that the system sets on the region

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: the ground issue is a bug

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: not related to dart

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: we're still hunting

[23:06]  Cheops Forlife: and DART restarts it or not?

[23:06]  Grimley Graves: dart fixes it tho, right?

[23:06]  Sakai Openlife: if none of us have found it by the end of our current task track

[23:07]  Shai Khalifa: hope you have a big can of Mortein

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: then we'll all get together and brain storm it

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: for a few days

[23:07]  Grimley Graves: Mortien?

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: *even if it means we rewrite where we think it might be

[23:07]  Shai Khalifa: it's an Aussie insect spray

[23:07]  Cheops Forlife: lol

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: dart does fix that issue

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: just like web restarts

[23:07]  Grimley Graves: ah

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: but it's not really a fix

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: just a reset

[23:07]  Sakai Openlife: to the service

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: the issue could still come back later from whatever is causing it

[23:08]  Grimley Graves: yeah

[23:08]  Shai Khalifa: yeah, and and it seems to sometimes be recurrent even after restart

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: *and it's usually after someone has been there

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: and for whatever reason

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: has crashed out

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: of the region

[23:08]  Grimley Graves: maybe when they crash out?

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: however it's worth noting

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: just if someone does crash out

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: it doesn't necessarily cause

[23:08]  Sakai Openlife: it

[23:09]  Cheops Forlife: something to do with the boundaries?

[23:09]  Sakai Openlife: we've never been able to 'make it happen yet'

[23:09]  Cheops Forlife: I tell that because

[23:09]  Grimley Graves: maybe the way they crash

[23:09]  Shai Khalifa: I do find that I have a higher incidence of crashing if I teleport a few times then try to do something like chat or IM

[23:09]  Cheops Forlife: I could see the bug under my eyes

[23:09]  Cheops Forlife: I was terraforming at Gaia

[23:10]  Sakai Openlife: at the end of the day there are very limited circumstances

[23:10]  Grimley Graves: is there maybe a problem if you quit during a stalled TP?

[23:10]  Sakai Openlife: where you will crash on something from us

[23:10]  Cheops Forlife: and was pushed by my terraforming at the boundary, one edge of the region, and at once, all the prims disapeared and I was stuck

[23:10]  Sakai Openlife: but there can be plenty of reasons

[23:10]  Sakai Openlife: on your PC end

[23:10]  Sakai Openlife: why you might disconnect

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: that don't even necessarily mean an issue with us

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: (or you)

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: can also be something in the middle

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: ㋡

[23:11]  Shai Khalifa: do you guys track crashes (incompleted logouts)?

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: sure

[23:11]  Sakai Openlife: regions know when they haven't heard from you in a while

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: and there's a system in the core

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: services

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: that watches avatars

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: and keeps track of where you are etc

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: it will query regions

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: if it wants to know about you

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: and regions will query the service

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: about your

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: avvatar too

[23:12]  Sakai Openlife: (this isn't some kind of spying device)

[23:13]  Shai Khalifa: hehe

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: it is how we know where to send things about you

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: ie you send an im

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: we need toknow where it's going to

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: to get it to the destination

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: otherwise IM's could just be put in some big bucket somewhere

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: for ppl to fish out

[23:13]  Sakai Openlife: hehe

[23:14]  Shai Khalifa: hehe - could be interesting

[23:14]  Sakai Openlife: yes wouln't want to catch th wrong fish though

[23:14]  Sakai Openlife: you mighjt not want to read it!

[23:14]  Cheops Forlife: is this why we can't see IM saved when someone didn't log off properly?

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: that is because IM's aren't entirely in the new system

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: when you can reply to IM's on the site

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: more of the system will have changed

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: even friends are changing

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: (on site too)

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: that will change the online / offline calls

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: we've been building this whole new infrastructure of code

[23:15]  Grimley Graves: any news on making the clickables more intutive?

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: around site

[23:15]  Sakai Openlife: and world

[23:16]  Sakai Openlife: and in between

[23:16]  Sakai Openlife: which clickable?

[23:16]  Shai Khalifa: clickables?

[23:16]  Grimley Graves: the numbers by IM's, or region

[23:16]  Grimley Graves: buttons

[23:16]  Shai Khalifa: ah yeah

[23:16]  Sakai Openlife: the buttons are big

[23:16]  Sakai Openlife: itnentionally so

[23:16]  Sakai Openlife: they work well on a tablet

[23:17]  Sakai Openlife: (or touch phone)

[23:17]  Grimley Graves: I just had to talk Mae thru renewing because she didn't know to click the number

[23:17]  Shai Khalifa: no, to click on your regions you have to click the numbers

[23:17]  Shai Khalifa: where intuitively you go to click the name Regions

[23:17]  Sakai Openlife: the 'might' turn into tiles

[23:17]  Sakai Openlife: (a bit like a WP7 phone)

[23:17]  Grimley Graves: or just not realize it's clickable at all

[23:17]  Sakai Openlife: still be numbers

[23:17]  Sakai Openlife: but mor erecognisable

[23:18]  Cheops Forlife: yes not really obvious when we don't know

[23:18]  Grimley Graves: can mouseover turn the curser to a hand?

[23:18]  Shai Khalifa: the expansion of region info doesn't indicate it's expandable at all - no cursor change on rollover

[23:18]  Grimley Graves: so it looks clickable

[23:18]  Sakai Openlife: we actually 'wrote'

[23:18]  Sakai Openlife: that

[23:18]  Sakai Openlife: on the regions page

[23:19]  Grimley Graves: needs to be site wide really

[23:19]  Shai Khalifa: I only found it by mistake, clicking the page to bring it back to the foreground

[23:19]  Sakai Openlife: the numbers do turn into hands

[23:19]  Grimley Graves: as well as tiles

[23:19]  Sakai Openlife: the regions don't but the text does say

[23:19]  Grimley Graves: not for me they dont

[23:19]  Sakai Openlife shouts: click the region name to expand for more details:

[23:19]  Shai Khalifa: the region info expansion doesn't turn to a hand though

[23:19]  Sakai Openlife: (not sure why i shout then)

[23:20]  Sakai Openlife: if th number is p0

[23:20]  Sakai Openlife: 0

[23:20]  Shai Khalifa: hehe, to get above the traffic noise?

[23:20]  Sakai Openlife: it won't turn into a hand

[23:20]  Sakai Openlife: because it's not a link

[23:20]  Sakai Openlife: only positive numbers are links

[23:20]  Grimley Graves: ah, it does now, didn't before

[23:21]  Grimley Graves: or I'm just blind

[23:21]  Sakai Openlife: might of confused it with the regions names that don't

[23:21]  Shai Khalifa: none of my region names turns the cursor to a hand. I use Safari btw

[23:21]  Grimley Graves: or safari just burped

[23:21]  Grimley Graves: numbers do tho Shai

[23:22]  Shai Khalifa: yes the numbers do

[23:22]  Sakai Openlife: noe of the region name turn into hand

[23:22]  Sakai Openlife: for anyone

[23:22]  Shai Khalifa: but once you get to regions, you can click near/on the text and it expands

[23:22]  Sakai Openlife: (as just mentioned)

[23:22]  Sakai Openlife: it will need some java to do it

[23:22]  Grimley Graves: well, Mae couldn't figure how to get to the renewal page and was freaking out

[23:23]  Sakai Openlife: when it was mentioned a while ago

[23:23]  Sakai Openlife: we made the task

[23:23]  Sakai Openlife: it will get done but it's low priority

[23:23]  Shai Khalifa: yeah, I've stepped a couple of people through it

[23:23]  Sakai Openlife: compared to many othr tasks

[23:23]  Shai Khalifa: I guess it's still all make-do while the site gets finished

[23:23]  Sakai Openlife: actually the tutorial for using the hub i think is higher up the list

[23:24]  Sakai Openlife: you will be able to make primary avatars in about a day

[23:24]  Sakai Openlife: we sort of use primary now

[23:24]  Sakai Openlife: (it's the avatar the system guessd)

[23:24]  Sakai Openlife: and put in the hub page

[23:25]  Sakai Openlife: this stuff should have been done ages ago

[23:25]  Sakai Openlife: (really)

[23:26]  Sakai Openlife: I've hated the long process for a long time

[23:26]  Sakai Openlife: just use another email

[23:26]  Sakai Openlife: and register again

[23:26]  Sakai Openlife: after we put it up

[23:26]  Sakai Openlife: if you want to try it

[23:26]  Shai Khalifa: kk, will do

[23:27]  Shai Khalifa: (I won't add this to the chat log either)

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: so there's a bunch of updates

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: that will be quite non-descript

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: listed in the notices section

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: I wouldn't worry too much about what is new in them

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: we'll summarise it

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: when we're done

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: at the end of the month

[23:27]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: so region version numbers are going to change a few times

[23:27]  Sakai Openlife: between now and then

[23:28]  Shai Khalifa: so are we in 1.2 now?

[23:28]  Sakai Openlife: ?

[23:28]  Shai Khalifa: I've sort of lost track of where we are in the development numbers

[23:28]  Sakai Openlife: we haven't even gotten to 1.0 yet

[23:28]  Sakai Openlife: hehe

[23:28]  Shai Khalifa: lol

[23:28]  Grimley Graves: 0.8.1.96

[23:29]  Shai Khalifa: ah, see I knew there was a 2 involved - .8.2?

[23:29]  Grimley Graves: close

[23:29]  Sakai Openlife: 0.8.1.96 as gims said

[23:29]  Grimley Graves: hoping for 8.2 soon

[23:29]  Sakai Openlife: by the end of this month should be something like

[23:29]  Sakai Openlife: 0.8.3

[23:29]  Xtaci Pile is Online

[23:30]  Grimley Graves: really wanting group notices

[23:30]  Shai Khalifa: whoa, nice jump if we can make it ...

[23:30]  Sakai Openlife: so those numbers will go past 0.8.2 but with bits off

[23:30]  Sakai Openlife: as mentioned as they come online in the web

[23:30]  Shai Khalifa: hehe a swish cheese 8.8.3

[23:30]  Sakai Openlife: they will come online in the world ;)

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: because we need other stuff already done in 0.8.2 and higher for web

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: to turn them on

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: so we mod them slightly to turn stuff off

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: (but on for devs) to do web things

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: (complicated)

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: but anyways... yes?

[23:31]  Sakai Openlife: lol

[23:31]  Cheops Forlife: are permissions through friendlist orking atm? Scarletti and Jardel could not make that work just before the meeting

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: u might need to tp

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: or relog

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: to see them

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: it's still old system

[23:32]  Cheops Forlife: yes they tried that too

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: but they work

[23:32]  Cheops Forlife: was fixed the bufg I had?

[23:32]  Cheops Forlife: bug*

[23:32]  Sakai Openlife: grims IM Q

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: about contact

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: it will be replaced

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: entirely

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: which is why it's not there

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: to a simple method for unregistered users

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: and an IM type style

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: for registred users

[23:33]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: so that we can work with contacts

[23:33]  Sakai Openlife: using the world system

[23:34]  Sakai Openlife: ie IM you back rather than just email

[23:34]  Shai Khalifa: any idea when some form of Contact will be available again?

[23:34]  Sakai Openlife: as above

[23:34]  Shai Khalifa: by the end of March?

[23:34]  Sakai Openlife: sometime... yes

[23:35]  Grimley Graves: for now we'll just IM you in-world

[23:35]  Sakai Openlife: clearly we're being very vague about march because it a big haul

[23:35]  Shai Khalifa: yeah, we all get asked this stuff though, so it's good to have some sort of response that helps

[23:35]  Sakai Openlife: there's some 300 code tasks

[23:35]  Sakai Openlife: that we laid out for the month

[23:35]  Shai Khalifa: is there any other way to make contact in need?

[23:36]  Sakai Openlife: IM

[23:36]  Shai Khalifa: kk

[23:36]  Shai Khalifa: do they get capped in OL?

[23:36]  Sakai Openlife: not yet

[23:36]  Shai Khalifa: cool

[23:36]  Sakai Openlife: when the lsl function is re-imp

[23:36]  Sakai Openlife: it will

[23:36]  Sakai Openlife: to prevent spamn

[23:37]  Shai Khalifa: fair enough

[23:37]  Sakai Openlife: well you wouldn't want ppl laying out im spammers

[23:37]  Sakai Openlife: :

[23:38]  Sakai Openlife: for lsl too we'll include your guid

[23:38]  Sakai Openlife: in an av management page

[23:38]  Sakai Openlife: for scripting

[23:38]  Sakai Openlife: (atm it's not listd anywhere)

[23:46]  Grimley Graves: well, I have to run, see you all later

[23:46]  Grimley Graves: stop by CI and see what we are doing

[23:46]  April Springs: bye grimley

[23:46]  Cheops Forlife: bye Grim

[23:46]  Shai Khalifa: cya Grims

 

[23:50]  Sakai Openlife: just coffee chat

 

[general chat about current world issues followed in the usual casual manner]